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Ask Shifra

Something Different... Answering questions and making curious observations (online) since 2005.

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Thursday, June 02, 2005

Men who hate women and the women who love them

I lifted this question from the comments section of DovBear's post on Heshy from Brooklyn where out-of-towner asked for my opinion on loving a misogynist.

If Heshy is in fact married, the reason I know his wife is probably ecstatically happy is that he sounds like a positive, sincere, great guy. And the more he writes, the more that is confirmed. The novelist, Milan Kundera, writes that a woman can only be truly happy with a misygonist because if he loves her, it is in spite of the fact that she is a woman, not because she is a woman. She will know that he isn't susceptable to playing around on her and she will feel most secure with him. I have always thought that was an interesting observation on his part. What do you think about that?

Before I could answer this question I wanted to make sure I knew the exact definition of the misogynist. It turns out it was simpler than I thought, a misogynist is nothing more than a man who hates women.

The whole concept of loving someone what you hate seems very paradoxical to me. How can someone who hates women truly love one "in spite" her womanhood?

This could be interpreted in a few ways, and here's a spoiler: none of them are good.

But first, what sort of a beaten down woman wants to be loved by a man who finds her half of the species worthy of his disdain? Will she enjoy seeing her mother, sister, friends and daughters mistreated or is his love for her so fulfilling and selfish that she cares not how the rest of the women in her life will be affected. If so, she's halfway to being a misogynist herself!

The very fact that he loves her despite her very essence is insane. While I agree that love and hate are very close I'm don't think it's possible to love a person while hating who they are. That means either a) the man is crazy or b) it is a very narrowly focused love- I love you, just not who you are. That doesn't sound like true love to me.

Alternatively, perhaps he doesn't love "her" at all. Maybe he loves her the way a person loves a good steak. He loves how she serves him and worships him. He loves how he feels when he is with her but it is only a self serving kind of love.

Lastly, a man who is able to overcome his revulsion of women to be with the one he "loves" may not really be a true misogynist after all. If is love for this woman is true, perhaps he may have conquered his hate leaving him open to love all kinds of women.

So, to answer your question OOT I think that any woman who wants to be loved by a misogynist is selling herself short. She will not be loved and she will nor will she be safe from a broken heart.


At 3:50 PM, Blogger AMSHINOVER said...

it's like asking what if Eva Braun was a jew?

At 3:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right. You cannot love what you hate.

At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then why am I inexplicably attracted to Pauly Shore movies? (Yes, even "Bio-Dome.")

At 4:38 PM, Blogger AMSHINOVER said...

But do you think you can love what you hate?(your mother?)

At 4:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's more likely you can hate what you love Amshi, if that's what you are asking :)

At 5:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only self-hating women would like men who hate women. That's how we get abused wives. Much better advice: Watch how your boyfriend treats his mother. If he is kind to her, he'll likely be kind to you. (But if he's too close to her - WATCH OUT!)

My husband has the patience of a saint when dealing with his mother.

At 8:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very good advice!

At 9:37 AM, Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der ┼íteg) said...

What if what you love/hate is blogging?

(this is a surreptitious hint to get you to check out my first real blog post, since you complained about my lack of content)


At 4:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Shifra, thanks for your analysis. Points well taken. However, I don't think Kundera was referring to a hard-core mysigonist. And I stay away from serious pathos like that. Certainly Heshy isn't one of them. I think we throw around the term without feeling the true weight of it. I still like Kundera, though.

At 7:57 PM, Blogger Shifra said...

Maybe if I saw the quote in context it would be more meaningful to me.

Can you tell me where it is from?

At 6:11 PM, Anonymous Dr Lector said...

Some mysigonists aren't real mysigonists, they just think they are. These kind of men feel a hatred towards women either because they have been deeply hurt by one, or have been repeatedly rejected by many women over a long period of time. If they were to encounter one that would accept them and love them, these men would most likely be greatful and worship the ground this new "saviour" woman walks on.

At 6:26 PM, Anonymous Dr Lector said...

Someone mentioned Eva Braun above.. Sometimes we learn to tolerate things we normally hate. Hitler had a well known adversion to smoking. Eva was daily smoker. Could Hitler have forced her to give up this habit that he found revolting? Of course he could have. The fact is, he did nothing of the sort other than to verbally nag her to stop on occasion. She was fond of movie making and pictures and would have "home movies" shot of her posing in skimpy swim suits. Hitler did not approve of her doing this, but again, tolerated it. If he had found out she had some Jewish lineage, most likely he would have made sure it was kept a secret, as she had been kept a secret to the German people during the war. He was obviously fond of her, had her around for a long time, and most likely the only thing that would have provoked him to "dispose" of her would have been if she had tried to kill him.

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At 9:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm definite married to a man that hates women and have been for 14 years. I think I saw men through my love for all mankind and could not believe that he could really hate women but when he told me that he thought all women were hoers including myself and our 2 daughters I realized all the times he said he loved me were lies. That would explain the fact he won't have sex with me. It's really sick, but I stuck the Lord gives me no way out so here I'll stay. It wold have been nice to know before I married him.


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